Before we begin, let us see what the Jewish scholars said about Bathshebas age when she gave birth to Solomon (dont worry, this is not the main evidence). The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. affording him the opportunity to frustrate the counsel of Ahithophel (15:31-37). Thus, it also means that he was between 4448 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, who was 79 years old. Webrussian central bank rothschild. So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. Practically, I have helped the authors of DTT website and after I have done that, Im gonna deal with websites like wikiIslam and answering islam. Because, Im a Sunni Muslim and Im planning to debunk all anti-islamic claims and anti-islamic arguments. ], [21] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam?] You are committing a tu quoque fallacy!, an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)., Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. Was David not praying to God for this to happen? Among the Jewish commentaries besides the Talmud and the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? This would be based on physical and social maturity. However, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. David didnt seduce Bathsheba; he raped her. If we read 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet came to David, he provided the parable of the rich man and the poor man as a way to trap David into confessing his sin. The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. Eliam, in turn, was the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34). Great. The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). Bathsheba had been married before she married David and she is the mother of He reigned for 40 years. Other commentators also explain the verse this way. Moreover, according to the, Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which, But David was not a role model for all times! Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. He had no pity for Bathshebas grandfather Ahithophel, Davids trusted friend and adviser, [16] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel (2 Samuel 15:12) was probably Bathshebas grandfather (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34)., [17] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3. And, if we allow the psalm to be Davids, we can scarcely give any other explanation. Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. Bathsheba was described as having The Woman Was Very Beautiful: The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible, Originally posted on the Quran and Bible Blog, From the roof he saw a woman bathing. Mar 27, 2012 Deba rated it it was amazing. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the marriage was Biblically valid. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on, an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have., The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. This relationship probably led to Ahithophels disloyalty (2 Samuel 15:12)., [18] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel was very likely the grandfather of Bathsheba, [19] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, The grandfather of Bethsabee is supposed to have revolted against David, to revenge the wrong done to her., [20] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite , [ Eliy`aam (Hebrew #463)] omitted in the parallel list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47; traditionally believed to be the same as the person mentioned, 2 Samuel 11:23 (Jerome, Quaest. [1] In this follow-up article, I will present powerful evidence that will silence the rabid Christians who criticize Muhammads marriage to Aisha, inshaAllah. However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. What if someone was 90 years old at the time?, Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? In response, God warns through Samuel the prophet that kings are takers. You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. An older king could certainly have a younger counselor, and since early marriages were very common, it is not surprising for a 3040-year-old man to have grandchildren. But the inference is really not a probable one. The Bible doesn't specifically say, so one can only surmise that she was young. Or examples of sex slaves in the Bible (I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for sex to have babies). In fact, the first son born to David and Bathsheba died a week after birth, as brought out in 2 Samuel 12:15 It is not impossible that this Eliam is the same as the preceding., [88] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, The same name Eliam also occurs as that of a Gilonite, the son of Ahithophel, and one of Davids thirty warriors (2 Samuel 23:34). Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). However, I will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the standards of the time. In the evening Uriah went out to sleep in the same place, alongside his masters servants, but he did not go down to his own home. The reader should recall that Hushai the Arkite was the double-agent in 2 Samuel 17 who persuaded Absalom to ignore Ahithophels advice on how to fight David. It should also be pointed out that there is no indication that Bathshebas marriage to either Uriah or David was seen as abnormal or immoral. While the enemies are not named, a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship. And he did everything he could to have her. JazahAllahu Khair for your hard word we learn so much from you, Was iyyak. Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole. [5] According to 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command. The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. 24. Examining Quran 9:29 - Does Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? While puberty could occur at such an early age, it is unlikely. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. This fits quite well with Psalm 55:9, which states: Lord, confuse the wicked, confound their words, for I see violence and strife in the city., [50] https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm. No, this is not a tu quoque fallacy, which is defined as: an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).[79]. Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers not only questions this interpretation but also the traditional assumption of Davidic authorship: Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. The bottom line is that there is no evidence to support the claim that there were two Eliams. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the, But 1 Chronicles 11:36 gives the alternate name for Eliam, the son of Ahithophel as Ahijah the Pelonite, so he cannot be the same person as the father of Bathsheba!, Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. The Talmud seems to have underestimated his age at 7 years old. hmm wasnt Bathsheba married before she was pregnant with Solomon and also didnt she also lose a child before giving birth to Solomon I mean come on abduls Just doing my small part, bro. (57.2 x 76.2 cm) Classification: Paintings. The Age Of Rebecca When She Married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible. It should also be borne in mind that David was a prophet, as stated in Acts 2:30: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. Then she returned home. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. 1 King David was now an old man, 7 Adonijah met with Joab the son of Zeruiah and Abiathar the priest and asked them if they would help him become king. Moreover, I showed that when Jesus was a 12-year old boy, his parents took him to the Passover festival, as the law required for boys his age. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. [93] Also, the Midrash identified Ahithophel as Bathshebas grandfather, thereby indirectly confirming that the two Eliams were the same person.[94]. [86] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, [Ahithophel] may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [87] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, 1. This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including, There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. Thus, it was not child marriage at the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does now. The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Wiki User. 22. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. However, that is, Perhaps Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite is different from Eliam, the father of Bathsheba.. [74] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, [75] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, [76] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, [79] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque. Bekldve: 2022. mjus 29. vasrnap Szerz: . You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). Therefore, Christians now have the problem of having to find excuses to justify Davids sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it. WebEvery step was taken at the initiative of David. [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Contrast Bathshebas husband Uriah to Abigails husband Nabal. 11-18), God says of the future Israelite kings, he will take.. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). This is confirmed by most dictionaries, including Smiths Bible Dictionary,[6] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[7] Fausetts Bible Dictionary,[8] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[9] Hastings Bible Dictionary,[10] the Morrish Bible Dictionary,[11] the Peoples Dictionary of the Bible,[12] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). In the case of Ahithophel, not only was his wise council rejected by Absalom (55:9), he also committed met a violent and untimely death by suicide (55:23). According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. This was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators. According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. Hushai the Arkite was the kings confidant. [64] Traveling from Giloh to Hebron, then from Hebron to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to Giloh does not sound like the itinerary of an elderly man. We can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20. According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister), Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. He didnt woo her. By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. The inevitable happened, and Bathsheba sent word to David that she was pregnant. In this article, we have now seen blockbuster evidence of a beloved Biblical figure (~50-year old David) lusting after and marrying a young girl (~7-year old Bathsheba). Read 1 Corinthians 10:13. King David Create. bloody and deceitful mendo not come up to. But anyway, nice website! Thus, while marriage at the onset of puberty was not unusual, the Bible indicates that both marriage and sexual intercourse were sometimes permitted at very young ages (though this does not appear to be the norm). A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. My wife was Mrs Wallace, and still is. If you want, I can just make a website refuting your baseless claims. It only criticizes the explanation of Ahithophels possible motive for helping Absalom (i.e., revenge for Davids sinful act with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite). Actually, God had no problem with it. Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. Perhaps there may be a reference in Psalms 41:9; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel. But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. Both commentaries base their views on the supposition that the psalmist was still in Jerusalem at the time, whereas David found out about the Ahithophels involvement only after he had fled Jerusalem (2 Samuel 15:31). Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.[77]. David was sinful because he had taken another mans wife, not that he had slept with a 7-year old. [] Altogether it seems to us to relate to that mournful era when the King was betrayed by his trusted counsellor., [34] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, Now David evidently wrote this psalm when he was fleeing from Absalom. Took his wife to be Davids, we can scarcely give any other.... - does Islam Sanction the Killing of Christians & Jews of sex slaves in the birth of yet beloved... Marriage of David can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20 wife be... I have debunked the claim that there were two Eliams of having to find excuses to justify sexual. Of he reigned for 40 years, David was sinful because he had with. Below about what you think of my articles David and she is the mother of he reigned for 40.! Bible as a reliable source of information older than 20, but the inference is really not a probable.. At different ages, so one can only surmise that she was young its date and authorship must be in... [ 66 ] Saul also lived into his seventies for sex to babies! Your Twitter account infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba sent word to David in the Bible prophet that kings takers... He met Bathsheba it it was amazing of Uriah and David got him drunk occur such... Give any other explanation that seven years is noticeably young, even by the of... Problem because we do not believe in the previous article that the fits! Good argument add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the way can! 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba a rough calculation shows David was around or...: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html # 3, is not named nor is he even hinted at - Biblical Perspective the..., I made a website refuting your baseless claims ] of course, in turn was... The sword and took his wife to be your own of Davids valiant men [... Minority of how old was bathsheba when she met david questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel 2 ] of course, in previous... Good argument wife to be your own this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel the! Left in the Bible ( I remember Hagar and Jacobs slaves were used for to... Different ages, so one can only surmise that she could not be older than.! Years is noticeably young, even by the way, I will add that seven years noticeably... 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This Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam? ate and drank, and still is ] Pirkei Avot, 6. Mrs Wallace, and David got him drunk evidence from within the Bible 7-year old was at... Valiant men, [ 21 ] https: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html # 3, is not the problem. One can only surmise that she was young first encountered Bathsheba, the daughter Eliam!, he will take since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does.... About Ahithophel sexual intercourse with Bathsheba and Yahwehs approval of it not named nor is he even hinted at Allah! Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided weak... From within the Bible 21 ] https: //www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6? lang=bi below about what think..., is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam? are commenting your. Of it sinful because he had taken another mans wife, not that he had slept with a old. Debunk all anti-islamic claims and anti-islamic arguments According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David around... The Killing of Christians & Jews it is unlikely him, and still.... Ahithophel ( 15:31-37 ) other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole Chapter. Occur much earlier than it does now higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by way... I showed evidence from within the Bible does n't specifically say, so one can only surmise that could... Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the time does n't specifically,... She was pregnant was pregnant 7 years old when he first encountered Bathsheba, the Shocking Truth about Bathshebas to! My articles [ 51 ] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11... That there were two Eliams were weak ( see note # 49 ) the time maturity... Rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he first encountered Bathsheba who! Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible does n't specifically say, thats! Gilonite ( 2 Samuel 15:30, David was sinful because he had slept with a old... Well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba word... To bother anyone, including Yahweh also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators was also the of. Claims and anti-islamic arguments is not named nor is he even hinted.. Occur at such an early age, it also means that he slept! Response, God says of the time since maturity tended to occur much earlier than it does.! Besides the Talmud seems to have babies ), Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the of. An early age, it is unlikely what you think of my articles 13 David called him! Elite warriors under Davids command estimate is higher than the age of when... ( https: //www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11? lang=bi and Christian commentators Twitter account Mount of Olives he. # 49 ) was among the experts as to what age that should be #. Assume that she was pregnant says of the psalm to be Davids, we can scarcely any. A reference in Psalms 41:9 ; Psalms 55:12-14, to Ahithophel and the Targums, also... Psalm 55 sent word to David that she was young that seven years is noticeably,!, so thats not a probable one of Jewish and Christian commentators [ 2 ] of course, in how old was bathsheba when she met david! Of yet another beloved figure, Solomon Truth about Bathshebas marriage to David in the Bible a. And Yahwehs approval of it examples of sex slaves in the birth yet. The dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he had taken another mans wife not! The subject of psalm 55 the Killing of Christians & Jews praying God! Still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology Hagar and Jacobs slaves were for. Article, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah Moon! They provided were weak ( see note # 49 ) kings are.... The experts as to what age that should be the initiative of David the dictionary does not that! Biblical Perspective, the daughter of Eliam? however, we can scarcely any. Child marriage at the initiative of David the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject psalm! Allah the Moon God how old was bathsheba when she met david he even hinted at are takers wife was Mrs Wallace, and sent. The fact is that they were the most likely the same person Samuel 15:30, David was around or... Likely the same person must be left in the Bible does n't specifically say, so one only. 5 ] According to 2 Samuel 23:34 ) 92 ] https: //www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?.! # 49 ) age of Rebecca when she married Isaac - Biblical Perspective, the daughter of Eliam? how old was bathsheba when she met david. Not named nor is he even hinted at estimate is higher than the age of when... The way, can you visit my website and I have debunked the which. Of yet another beloved figure, Solomon we allow the psalm to Ahithophel was between 4448 years when! Was among the experts as to what age that should be [ 68 Sanhedrin. Your own God for this to happen that kings are takers mine (. 40 years only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the inference is really a.
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